GRAND VOYAGE ITALY
  • Piazza
    • Older Posts
  • Travel
    • Our Family's Voyage
  • Cucina
  • Culture
  • History
  • Style
  • Photos
  • Videos
    • Music Videos
  • About
    • Survey
    • Links
  • Shop 🛒
  • Piazza
    • Older Posts
  • Travel
    • Our Family's Voyage
  • Cucina
  • Culture
  • History
  • Style
  • Photos
  • Videos
    • Music Videos
  • About
    • Survey
    • Links
  • Shop 🛒
We're All About Italy

My DNA Results: I'm More Italian than an Italian!

10/14/2016

17 Comments

 
Picture
My wife, Lisa bought me an interesting birthday gift this year--a DNA test kit. I've been researching my Italian heritage since before we took our voyage to Italy late 2014.
The origins of the Finzi family name have fascinated me since I was a kid. It was such an unusual name... unlike most Italian names, aside from an "i" at the end. To my ears it sounded Ancient Roman. I could imagine it engraved in marble somewhere in the ancient world.

As I grew through life I had hints of the roots of the Finzi famiglia: The film Garden of the Finzi-Contini about a Jewish family during Nazi occupation; a large department store named Finzi in Geneva (also Jewish); the British, Jewish composer Gerald Finzi (I was also baptized Gerald); but then I was thrown off by the Finzi Rum made in Jamaica (how did a Finzi get way down there?)

Suspecting a Jewish connection, I started reading about the history of the Jews as they moved throughout the world and through history in what is called the Diaspora--the often forced movement of Jews from one land to another. They originated in the Middle East, then moved to Greece and Southern Italy (called Magna Graecia) then to Northern Italy, Austria, Germany, Poland, Western Europe, Spain and beyond.

I read how the ancient form of our family name was varied: Pinchas, or in Latin as, Finees or Finea. I learned that the Finzi lineage leads back to ancient times—2000 years ago and perhaps further. Many—and semingly most—modern Finzis living today are Jewish. Roman Catholic Finzis are in much smaller numbers. I have come to a theory on the reason for this...

At several times in history, many Jewish bearers of the Finzi name were forced to either to give up their religion entirely, convert to Catholicism (often under threat of death), or to leave their current homeland and relocate to other lands if they wanted to continue in their Jewish faith. This caused a split in the Finzi family lineage--most being Jewish, and some Catholic—like my family.

When my line of Finzis converted to Catholicism isn't certain, but there are a few possibilities. The first goes back almost 2000 years...

More likely than not, the first Jews (including Finzis) arrived in Puglia in southern Italy (perhaps after first migrating to Greece) sometime after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD.  At the time, Emperor Tito brought back 5000 prisoners who settled in and around Taranto. In addition, the ports of Brindisi, Otranto, Bari, Trani and Barletta were the natural ports of entry from the Middle East, with the whole of Puglia becoming the first new community for the dispora of Jews looking for a new life in Italy and Western Europe. OK, so that's how the first Jewish Finzis probably arrived in Italy.
Picture
That's right... I'm more Italian than a native Italian!
As time went on, more and more Jews came to Puglia, but not all from Palestine. Some arrived by sea from the Balkans, others from Spain and Portugal, France, Central Europe and even other parts of Italy. Once in Puglia, they assimilated with existing groups, creating a Judaism with its own unique profile. Many spoke Greek as their first language. Still today, there are Jewish communities and a strong historic record of Jews in Puglia, such as Jewish tombstones from the third century A.D..

But why and when did my line of Finzis convert from Judaism to Catholicism? There are three possibilities:
  1. In 70 AD the
  2. In the 9th and 10th centuries Byzantine emperors forced Jews to convert.
  3. In the 13th century the Angevin ruler Charles II also forced Jews to convert or die.
  4. In the 1600s the Aragonese also forced conversion to Christianity.

Jews who were forced to convert were called either neofiti, cristiano novi or cristiani novelli. Converting to Christianity didn’t mean they had as many rights as others who were born as Christians. When Jews converted, they were expected to condemn their former religion in the harshest way possible, making it difficult for them to re-enter at a later time. Most neofiti were not permitted to own land. And in Christian communities, these Jewish apostates were not considered full-fledged Christians. Cristiani novella were caught in the middle of the two faiths. Perhaps this was the fate of my lineage of the Finzi famiglia so long ago...

I'm strongly convinced now that my family line was forced to convert perhaps as much as a thousand years ago. The DNA results give strong evidence for that, especially since the percentage of "Italy/Greece" DNA is very high at 74%, while the "European Jewish" (5%) and "Middle East" (3%) DNA are surprisingly low. To be honest, I was expecting a higher percentage of Jewish DNA in my blood, either European Jewish or Middle Eastern. From what I read about the DNA science behind the results, such a large percentage of "Italian/Greece" DNA with such a low percentage of Jewish DNA means that the Jewish part of my lineage was long ago in history.

The amazing thing to me is that 74% is actually higher than a native of the "Italy/Greece" region! Does this mean I'm more Italian than Italians?

--Jerry Finzi
Picture
Notice the line traveled through Syria, Turkey, Greece and then to Italy... is this the path of my ancestors?
17 Comments
Jennifer Andersen
8/1/2018 11:39:59 pm

Yes. That means you're more Italian than most Italians, and you're less Jewish than all Jews. :)

Reply
Jerry Finzi
8/2/2018 09:51:43 am

Jennifer,

In fact, I recently discovered yet another fork in my genealogical road which I will discuss in a future article, but in short, I have discovered that my line of Finzis is a line that started in the 1830s and takes a turn in an entirely different direction. Suffice to say, there is a reason I have so little Middle-Eastern, Jewish DNA. More to come soon...

--Jerry

Reply
Claudio
10/8/2018 06:12:49 am

Jerry Finzi.
What are your updated AncestryDNA results?
(In case you were not aware they will have changed maybe dramatically if you have not logged in in last month)
With new Algorithm recently introduced.

Dominic Delfino
9/17/2018 12:31:31 pm

I got my Ancestry DNA results today. Italy 92%. Greece 4%. Turkey 4%. Seems Ancestry is now separating Italy/Greece or I would have 96%

Reply
Jerry F
9/17/2018 03:42:31 pm

Dominic,

I hadn't heard that they separated the Greek and Italian markers. I wonder how high mine would go if I did another test!

Reply
Jerry
10/8/2018 01:05:31 pm

Dominic,
I just got a chance to check my DNA results a few days ago. It has me at 86% Italian, centered around the areas of Campania /Lazio (maternal side) and Puglia (Dad's from Molfetta). The region around Greece is around 9%... typical I would guess for anyone from the south--Magna Greca.

I've also started to cross check all the DNA hits for high percentage matches and seem to be closing in on some missing lineage information.

This stuff is like solving a mystery!

--Jerry F.

Reply
Claudio
10/8/2018 03:39:32 pm

86% Italian
9% Greek/Balkan
What about your remainder 5%?

Reply
Roberto Aloi link
10/9/2018 07:48:57 pm

I think I am a gypsy at heart having so many different estimates ;)

Paternal grandfather was born in Pizzo Calabria. Paternal grandmother was born in Venezuela, but family was from Naples Italy. Maternal grandfather was also Calabrian, although I am not sure which town. Maternal grandmother was French Canadian and I have no idea what her background was. Assuming she contributed to the NW Europe estimate I received.



Italian - 52.1%
Iberian - 7.2%
Greek - 3.3%
North and West Europe - 9.0%
North and West European - 9.0%
Middle East - 14.8%
North Africa - 7.6%
Nigerian - 0.9%
West Asia - 5.1%

Reply
Chris
1/16/2021 03:19:56 am

Italian and Greek Jews were Pre-Ashkenazi so the Ashkenazi markers in many Greek/Italian Jews are not evident in genetic testing

Reply
kaniel outis
1/25/2021 12:46:13 am

I took a test with Living DNA. They don't have an Ashkenazi marker, so I score a mix of Southern European and Near Eastern with a small percentage of Eastern European (Northeast Europe). Ashkenazim who test with Living DNA always score Italian, whether it be Southern Italy, Tuscany, or Northern Italy, or all of the above due to reasons you outlined above. Behar has done extensive studies on Ashkenazi autosomal DNA and has found that they cluster with Italians.

Reply
Kaniel Outis
1/28/2021 02:30:29 am

You are possibly more Jewish than what you think. Behar points out that Ashkenazim cluster close to South Caucasian people, such as Armenians. I did my test with living DNA, who don't have an Ashkenazi marker, and like other Ashkenazim, I score South Caucasus. You also get a small percentage of Middle Eastern. Ashkenazim and Sephardim cluster with Middle Eastern groups. I score Arabian, which includes Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, UAE, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, and Kuwait. Many other Ashkenazim also score Arabian. You could have Sephardic and Ashkenazic ancestry.

The European Jewish region roughly corresponds to Living DNA's Europe Northeast region, although Austria and Hungary belong to Pannonia, Germany is divided into Northeast Germanic, South Germanic, and Northwest Germanic, the Baltic States belong to the Baltic region, and Romania belongs to the East Balkan region. Behar has pointed out that Ashkenazim don't cluster with Eastern Europeans. Most Ashkenazim who test with Living DNA only score low percentages of Northeast Europe.

You also score 4% Iberian, which could relate to Sephardic ancestry. I score West Iberian, which is the North African genetic influenced part of the Iberian Peninsula. West Iberia combined with Arabia relates to my Sephardic ancestry.

Some of your Italian results could also be linked to your Ashkenazi ancestry, as Ashkenazi Jews are closely related to Southern Italians, Tuscans, and to a lesser extent Northern Italians on a genetic level. I actually score Northern Italian, which combined with South Caucasus, and Europe Northeast relates to my Ashkenazi ancestry.

Ashkenazim are genetically a mix of Southern European, and Southwest Asian (read: Middle Eastern, and Southern Caucasian).

Reply
Claudio
12/29/2022 11:04:08 am

I wouldn’t take your LivingDNA results to seriously.
One they update there Middle East sample set expect your results to change.
Currently Levantine Christians - Lebanese- Palestinians and Samaritans currently score a big chunk of South Caucasus (which doesn’t make sense) expect if yo change.
Ashkenazim can usually be modeled as something like 20/30 % Levantine 40/50% South Italian/Aegean Greek 10/15% North & East euro + 4/5% Berber North African-which highlights there Greco- Roman Ethnogenesis.

Reply
Alfio
9/21/2021 06:19:29 pm

You are not more Italian than an Italian, yours are just S.Italian\like results. Possibly that Italian\Greek label represents some dna samples from South Italy. In many tests "Italian" is represented by Tuscans so you would get a lot less in that case.

Reply
JoeM
12/13/2022 09:36:20 pm

I didn't find the Jewish thing interesting. There is this obsession about Jewish ancestry, also Romani, which I don't share.
You should post an updated ancestry result, I am sure it would have changed since 2016. The Italy/Greece category probably doesn't exist anymore.
I am not Italian either, but 23andMe gave me 75% Italian. This is because my ethnic group is close to Italy, but it not Italian. 23andMe needs to state categorically which Italian groups it uses for this Italian label. Italians vary from North to South, and Sicily, so which ever groups the company uses as reference has to catch these Italians from North to South to Sicily, as well as Italian Swiss. Quite a task.

Reply
Claudio
12/29/2022 10:55:56 am

Jerry’s AncestryDNA results should have updated drastically since they now have a North Italian,a South Italian,and a Mainland Greek, and Aegean Greek Islands Catergory, as well as Cypriot - Grace us with your updated results Mr Finzi! ;)

Reply
Stefania
5/5/2024 04:51:52 am

To us former Italian schoolkids, Finzi is an eminently Jewish surname. This is due to "Il giardino dei Finzi Contini" (The garden of the Finzi Contini's) by Giorgio Bassani, a 1962 novel set in 1930s Ferrara, Northern Italy. In the novel, the Finzi Contini are an affluent Jewish family shattered by anti-Jewish laws in Fascist Italy. This is seen through the eyes of the main character, a (Gatsby-like) school kid who frequents the house and falls in love with the family's daughter. The book was later adapted into a film by the famous director Vittorio De Sica. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Garden_of_the_Finzi-Continis_(film)

Reply
Jerry F.
5/6/2024 04:45:30 pm

As I wrote in this article, my original theory of my own Finzi name (from a Catholic family in Molfetta, Puglia) was that in times past during periods of pressure upon Italian Jews, my ancestors were forced to convert to Christianity. I have since learned from elders in Molfetta that my great-great grandfather, Anselmo Finzi was abandoned and somehow assigned the surname Finzi at birth in 1847--supposedly the parents were a Noble (Fontana) and a servant girl from Giovinazza. (I have since traced his mother via DNA and local church records, which showed Anselo as a teen living with her family after he left the Ginovinazzo orphanage).

My research discovered that at times, mayors or other officials would assign names of nobility to give the orphan a better chance in life. Apparently, even in southern Italy the jewish name Finzi was well known. I was told a story from one of my Finzi Italian cousins, that when she was a child in the forties, a man said when meeting her, "You have a noble face of a Finzi".

I could find no record of a Jewish Finzi ever living in southern Italy before the birth of Anselmo.

I am very familiar with the Garden of the Finzi-Contini and saw it as a young man. When I was young, and before the internet, the only time I saw the Finzi name was that film, a department store in Geneva name Finzi and a Jamaican Rum called Finzi.

My own DNA shows only a smitten of Jewish blood.

Jerry F

Reply

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.


Leave a Reply.


    Categories

    All
    1 Making Plans
    2 Gear And Tips
    3 Getting Around
    4 Tuscany
    5 Amalfi Coast
    6 Basilicata
    7 Puglia
    8 Rome
    9 Postcards
    Fotos Di Finzi
    History For Italians
    Humor
    La Cucina & Recipes
    More Than Gelato Pizza
    More-than-gelato-pizza
    News Del Giiorno
    Off The Tourist Path

    Archive

    July 2024
    June 2024
    January 2021
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    August 2018
    April 2018
    March 2018
    February 2018
    January 2018
    December 2017
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    May 2017
    April 2017
    March 2017
    February 2017
    January 2017
    December 2016
    November 2016
    October 2016
    September 2016
    August 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016
    May 2016
    April 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    October 2015
    September 2015
    August 2015
    July 2015
    June 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    January 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    October 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014

    RSS Feed

Copyright 2014 - 2024 by GrandVoyageItaly.com
Picture
  • Piazza
    • Older Posts
  • Travel
    • Our Family's Voyage
  • Cucina
  • Culture
  • History
  • Style
  • Photos
  • Videos
    • Music Videos
  • About
    • Survey
    • Links
  • Shop 🛒